osiagi w czasie deszczu-cos dziwnego Opcje

[GR44Z]

to co napewno jest pewne: uchylenie przepustnicy widoczne dzieki wskaznikowi podcisnienia. w czasie deszczu mozna osiagnac ta samam predkosc z mniejszym uchyleniem przepustnicy (mniejszym podcisnieniem w dolocie). tego akurat jestem pewien . rozumiem, ze ma to zwioazek z tym wszystkim co juz opisano, czyli: niska temp sprawia, ze silnik ciagnie powietrze o wiekszym zageszczeniu, odrobina wody w dolocie doatkowo je schladza. czujnik temp powietrza pomaga skorygowac dawke paliwa. silnik uzyskuje ta sama moc z mniejszym katem otwarcia przepustnicy. ide wlasciwym tropem w tym wzgledzie?

-nawet jeśli tak jest (to jest prawdopodobne), i Twój silnik uzyskuje tą większa moc (moment) przy jednakowych obrotach, to nijak ma się to do uzyskiwania wyższej prędkości przy tych samych rpm i tych samych przełożeniach. Efektem niezmieniania przełożeń przy tym dodatkowym momencie jest tylko to że Twój silnik będzie miał więcej ochoty do rozpędzania auta, jednak prędkości uzyskiwane na biegach będą identyczne (oprócz przypadku jaki opisał FilipN, kiedy jest mało mocy do osiągnięcia max rpm na ostatnim biegu -wzrośnie wtedy V-max, ale i proporcjonalnie wzrosną obroty)

(A może obrotomierz w Uno źle znosi wilgoć? )
Pozdr.

[Wspieraj forum]

[szumal]

A mi sie wydaje ze kolega wogole nie ma obrotomierza a chodzi mu o to ze jak jest sucho to ma 170 i gaz w podloce a jak pada to nie musi dosciskac do konca... A tak BTW czy opory toczenia ktore sa przeciez mniejsze na mokrej nawierzchni nie moga miec wplywu na v-max w samochodzie o slabej mocy??

[dejv667]

A mi sie wydaje ze kolega wogole nie ma obrotomierza

[rennen]

Do tego co powiedział Filip dodam, że po przeróbkach jest możliwe by wyżej zakręcić silnikiem, co może zaowocować zmianą Vmax ale to i tak nie zmieni prędkości przy danych rpm na danym biegu w porównaniu do serii.

[dejv667]

mi sie jednak wydaje, ze winny bedzie niedokladny szybkosciomierz. byc moze wskazowka drzy czy cos... a ja sie nie przyjrzalem wystarczajaco dokladnie.w kazdym razie sprawdze poraz kolejny, na spokojnie i jesli moje obserwacje byly bledne (a wynika z waszych slow, ze byly) to bohatersko przyznam sie do tego


teraz natomiast powracam do skladania "zimowego" dolotu dla mojej padaki

[Pio]

Co za temat pełen kontrowersji...

Masz seryjne auto, prawdopodobnie na wąziutkich oponach z bierznikiem ala dębica i na długich prostych odcinkach mimo strat na bezpieczeństwie opony mają niższe opory toczenia. Ja mam w aucie do codziennej jazdy takie samo zjawisko, mialem tez w Toyocie Aygo. Ewww dochodzi do tego to, ze nizsza temp powietrza zmieni wskazania IAT sensora lub np jego kontakt z wodą jakoś tam w prawie nieznaczny sposob te mieszanke wzbogaci.

Teorie z mgiełką wodną bym sobie naprawde odpuscił. Nie w tym wypadku. Ktoś to przeczyta, nakręci sie i gotowy będzie zrobić kowersje butelki sprayu do okien do silnika uno 1.4 ehh........

[dejv667]

Teorie z mgiełką wodną bym sobie naprawde odpuscił. Nie w tym wypadku. Ktoś to przeczyta, nakręci sie i gotowy będzie zrobić kowersje butelki sprayu do okien do silnika uno 1.4 ehh........

ty, bo w sumie to ja myslalem o takim spryskiwaczu do kwiatkow...

a bedac popwaznym, ja tylko odczulem, ze samochod lepiej jedzie jak pada. to czego sie chcialem sie dowiedziec zostalow tym watku powiedziane.

[Kubek]

Lanie wody do wolnossacego auta nie ma sensu bo w dolocie nie ma wystarczajacej temperatury, aby ta woda mogla odparowac. W turbo to jest inna sprawa i stosuje sie to powszechnie.

[dejv667]

woda odparowuje w calosci w dolocie czy tez rowniez w komorze spalania?

[Kubek]

Wtrysk wody w silnikach turbo montuje sie na poczatku kolektora dolotowego, w okolicach przepustnicy. Idealnie by bylo gdyby cala woda odparowala w kolektorze dolotowym.

[dejv667]

a z ciekawosci, jak na wode dziala cisnienie? czyli wszelkie proby jej sprezenia w wysokiej temperaturze? bo jakos google nie chca mi wypluc niczego konkretnego na ten temat

[Kubek]

Jak znasz angielski to sobie poczytaj to http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=937176

[dejv667]

dziekuje, chcoc prosilbym kogos o sprawdzenie linka bo mi sie nie otwiera

[Black]

Link działa, ale jeśli u Ciebie nadal się nie otweira to proszę:



Read if you are thinking of trying water/methanol injection

What is Water/Methanol Injection?

Water Injection or Water Methanol Injection, is a process by which a mixture or water and Methanol are injected into the fuel/air mixture on the way to the combustion chamber. Water/Methanol Injection provides "Chemical Intercooling" inside the cylinder. By injecting water and methanol in a finely atomized spray, the water is able to evaporate under the high temps of a firing cylinder, and when the water evaporates, it takes heat with it. The methanol also has a cooling and octane boosting effect as it burns.

How does water/methanol injection allow your engine to produce more power?

The production of more power by a water/meth injected engine is not a by-product of the water/meth mixture alone. You must tune for it to get the most out of it. The evaporative effects of the water/meth mixture, plus the octane boost, allows you to run more advanced timing, and boost, thus increasing power. Methanol having the octane boosting effect, you can adjust your AFR's with tuning, and be able to run leaner AFR's than you would with just pump gas alone, with less risk of detonation, and also make more power.

What is Methanol?

Methanol is the simplest alcohol compound, comprised of one carbon atom, one oxygen atom and four hydrogen atoms (CH3OH). It is also referred to as wood alcohol, carbinol and methyl alcohol. It is poisonous, flammable and relatively volatile. It has no taste or color, but it does have a slight scent.

Methanol is used as a fuel and an antifreeze, and to make formaldehyde. It is also added to ethanol to make it unpalatable so that it avoids taxes on drinkable alcohol, as ethanol without a denaturant of some sort is consumable by humans. Methanol was first discovered in 1661, though it had been used without isolation by peoples as far back as the Egyptians in their embalming processes. The name comes from methy, meaning wine, and hyle, meaning trees.

Methanol is used as a fuel source by some, though its use is limited by its volatility. The main area in which one sees methanol being used is in many top-end racing engines. The vehicles in the Indy 500, for example, are all run on methanol. This methanol is usually produced using a fossil fuel as the synthesis gas, either natural gas or petroleum.

Many renewable energy advocates see methanol as an ideal fuel source, with distinct advantages over hydrogen. When methanol is made from materials such as wood, it is often called bioalcohol. The theoretical use of methanol as a widespread fuel source has given rise to a theory describing what is known as the methanol economy.

In the methanol economy, the common fuel is methanol, with non-renewable fuels having a minority share or being entirely unused. George Olah, a winner of the Nobel Prize, is a strong advocate of this path. Advocates point out that in contrast to hydrogen, methanol is relatively cheap to produce, can be manufactured with little or no waste, is efficient to store and can be made from sources other than fossil fuels. Also, while conversion to a hydrogen economy would require major changes in infrastructure, methanol could be phased in relatively easily because of its interoperability with fossil fuels. One can mix methanol with gasoline to produce hybrid fuels while making the shift in economy.

Unfortunately, methanol is very toxic and contains a number of hazards. It is less volatile than hydrogen, but also much heavier, which could allow contamination in the case of spills or tank leaks. A wide range of groups are constantly looking for new and innovative uses for methanol, and it seems apparent that it will have a role in the energy economy of the future. Whether that role is as the key player or a supporter to hydrogen or some other fuel source remains to be seen.

Can you run just water injection without methanol?

Yes, but you will not be able to take advantage of the octane boosting properties of methanol, thus you will get cooling from the water, but no increase in octane. Without methanol, you may not make as much power, as it acts as a detonation inhibitor, and you may not be able to run a leaner AFR as you could with it.

What supporting upgrades are required for water/methanol injection?

At minimum you should have some sort of engine management that can be tuned, I.E. able to adjust timing, boost, and fuel curves, to compensate for the octane boost, and cooling effects, and be able to take advantage of them to make power. Otherwise you can run water/meth injection on a stock car with tunable engine management. You do not have to have after-market intakes, exhausts, intercoolers, or strengthened internals. Although with more supporting mods that already increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the more power that can be had.

Who makes Water/Methanol injection systems?

There are many manufactures of water/injection systems:

These are some of the more popular and most inclusive kits for the money
http://www.aquamist.co.uk
http://snowperformance.net
http://www.coolingmist.com
http://www.devilsownonline.com/alcohol
http://www.enginerunup.com
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection
http://www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm

Who is the best manufacture to go with?

That is up to debate, but when you choose a kit, look at all the components that come with the kit, or if you can buy extra pieces that you may need, or think you need I.E. Level switches, fail safes, extra nozzles, varible controllers.
Also consider what type of reservoir you are going to have to use, or does the kit include one?
Most companies have some sort of reservoir, some make you use the existing windshield wiper tank, or make you supply your own.
Also read other peoples experiences with different kits as far as setup, price, inclusiveness of kit (does it satisfy all your requirements part-wise), power gains, etc.

How do I know how big a nozzle to run?

Here is a water injection calculator to assist in this ?
Calculator

It is at the bottom of the page...

Here is a volume converter also, to cross reference nozzles. Some companies list volumes of their nozzle in metric, some in standard units of measure.
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/volume.php

Where can I get methanol?
One of the best sources that some probably don't realize is from wal-mart or anywhere that sells basic windshield wiper fluid. Just make sure you don't get the stuff with Glycol in it...this is the same stuff used in engine anti-freeze. It won't work well, or could damage you engine.

Other sources:

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_f...55#special ty

This one has a comprihensive list of suppliers all over the USA

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=121500

You can buy on-line from these guys:
LINK
http://www.pricechemical.com/order/
http://www.powermist.com/distrib.html
http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/catalog_c30755.html

Those are just some.

Are there any water injection forums I can learn more from?

Yes, here are a few:

Aquamist's, probably has the most info and activity
http://www.waterinjection.info/phpBB2/
http://www.waterinjectionforum.com
http://www.waterinjection.info
http://snowperformance.net/forum/
http://www.devilsownonline.com/forum/index.php

How do I know what mixture to inject?

THe best rule of thumb is a 50/50 mix of methnol and distilled water

Some use more meth, some use less. But windshield wiper fluid is commonly between 35-42% methanol, which will usually work fine. The best mixture is proportionate to your particular state of tune. A little less methanol could possibly cause detonation. Mixing it yourself maybe the best way to know what is right for you.

Here is a freeze table for methanol also:

http://www.ashchem.com/adc/chemicals...=3&is_header=N

Just be careful with methanol as it is corrosive, toxic, and a carcinogen. Please be careful if you decide to mix your own brew.

Here is a link to a methanol hydrogemeter:

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ezrs104.html

Here is a great how to page:

http://www.dawesdevices.com/howto.html

Can you build your own kit, and how?

You need some basics to build your own system.

You need a pump with adequate pressure, most people use some type of diaphram pump, from ShurFlo for example.

You need nozzles

You need tubing

You need a trigger to turn on the system at the right time, some type of pressure switch...Some engine management such as TurboXS UTEC has a spare solenoid that can be setup to run your water injection system.

Many of the things needed for setting up a system can be found at these suppliers

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...UseBVCookie=no
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...l.ex?sku=68424
http://www.mcmaster.com/

And here is a great how to page on building your own...
http://www.projectwrx.com/modules.ph...howpage&pid=34

Can water/meth injection cause damage to my engine?

As with any aftermarket part, yes it can.

If you are running water/meth injection, you are risking detonation and catostrophic engine failure shoud you system fail or not run at optimum efficiency. This is due to the fact that when tuned you will be running advanced timing, boost and leaner fuel trims that would normally not be possible without water/meth injection. Loss of the system while under heavy load may not be able to be compensated for in time, and could cause detonation at best case, and engine failure at worst case. Be careful, and make sure you use a failsafe, or a tune that retards timing at the onset of knock, and some sort of level indicatior for the reservior, to ensure you know when the tank is getting empty. Nozzle clog indicators are not a bad idea either. They are especially important if using tap water, or not using a filter in the system, to catch impuritiies. This is why distilled water is best for this application.

Can I run without a external intercooler?

Yes, but your tune has to be setup to compesate for it. Advantages to running without a TMIC or FMIC are better spool of turbo and response, due to less volume to fill up. But again, you must make sure your system is working properly all the time, some have experimented with not using an external intercooler with success.

What gains can be made from water/meth injection?

This all depends on the current setup of your car, type of car, and your tuners ablilty. All your supporting mods such as exhaust, intakes, turbos gains are best realized with some sort of aftermarket tuning. The same it true with water/meth injection. But generally gains of 20-30 Hp and 20-30 ft/lbs of tq are common, making this one of the best bang for the buck power upgrades for your car. Your gains of course depend on supporting mods you already have in place, that will let you take advantage of the tuning to a higher degree.

Other NASIOC threads concerning water/meth injection:

LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=752282)
LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=873051)
LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933581)
LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=927066)
LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913929)
LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=922654)
LINK (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920847)

Disclaimer:
I can not be held responsible to any damage or mis-forture that may befall you or your engine due to the ideas expressed in this thread. Everything that your try concerning water/methanol injection is done at your own risk.

Thanks, any further questions, or things you think I should edit or add, please PM me. I provide this as a FAQ since many of us have or are looking at going this route, and I wish I had some of this info I provided when I started out. I have collected all this stuff as I have progressed, and now it is in one place.

DP

[Bullitt]

Bell powiedział:

Humidity is a natural octan booster.

Czy to wam wyjasnia co i jak?

Added after 11 minutes:

Bell powiedział:

Humidity is a natural octan booster.

Czy to wam wyjasnia co i jak?